Starstream Think Tank

ShadowHounder

Well-Known Member
But. All the Pokemon weren't in Diamond and Pearl at release.

Honestly. As a long time follower of competitive Pokemon, this had to happen eventually, even just for balancing reasons.

There were so many Pokemon and so many different tiers of power and so much variance even in those Pokemon. Competitive Pokemon is like rocket science. They really needed to reduce the number of Pokemon at some point.
But all of the Pokemon were available in Diamond and Pearl... Only a few special legendary forms and the mythical Pokemon were Platinum exclusive. Have your forgotten that the DS had a GBA to DS transfers system and Wi-Fi to utilize the first iteration of the world trade Center?

Also, I really do think it was a time crunch issue and not for balancing... Because they brought back as many OP Pokemon as they could in the DLC lol
 

Frostlich1228 (Alt)

Well-Known Member
But all of the Pokemon were available in Diamond and Pearl... Only a few special legendary forms and the mythical Pokemon were Platinum exclusive. Have your forgotten that the DS had a GBA to DS transfers system and Wi-Fi to utilize the first iteration of the world trade Center?

Also, I really do think it was a time crunch issue and not for balancing... Because they brought back as many OP Pokemon as they could in the DLC lol

Op Pokemon like?
 

ShadowHounder

Well-Known Member
The problem isn't op Pokemon. The problem is thr disparity between the OU Pokemon and the NU Pokemon
I think it was more the disparity between OU and UU mostly. NU is the fourth lowest tier, for those who don't follow Smogon metas. It goes Overused (OU), Underused (UU), Rarelyused (RU), Neverused (NU), PU and ZU. There is also Ubers. Which is mostly where all of the box art legendaries fight endlessly for best slot (except Mega-Rayquaza, the only most to ever get banned from Ubers).

Really my main consider is that Volcarona was strong even with a 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks (dealing 50% of it's health on entry, meaning with rocks and one or two layers of spikes it dies from almost any move it didn't resist)... And now it as access to Heavy Duty Boots.
 

Frostlich1228 (Alt)

Well-Known Member
I think it was more the disparity between OU and UU mostly. NU is the fourth lowest tier, for those who don't follow Smogon metas. It goes Overused (OU), Underused (UU), Rarelyused (RU), Neverused (NU), PU and ZU. There is also Ubers. Which is mostly where all of the box art legendaries fight endlessly for best slot (except Mega-Rayquaza, the only most to ever get banned from Ubers).

Really my main consider is that Volcarona was strong even with a 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks (dealing 50% of it's health on entry, meaning with rocks and one or two layers of spikes it dies from almost any move it didn't resist)... And now it as access to Heavy Duty Boots.

Well. Now Coalosal Exists. Which takes no damage from fire and even gets faster, can set up rocks, is faster already, and can hit 4x effective.
 

ShadowHounder

Well-Known Member
Well. Now Coalosal Exists. Which takes no damage from fire and even gets faster, can set up rocks, is faster already, and can hit 4x effective.
Coalassol also only has a base 30 speed compared to Volcarona's base 100. Steam Engine is also Coalassol's weakest ability (most sets run Flame body and Flash fire is better for offenaive sets). Volcarona has access to Roost, Quiver Dance, Giga Drain and Psychic... Meaning it can set up and still hit Coalassol for neutral damage (or just OHKO if it get set up... Remember that Bug Buzz is still a move it can abuse and Coalassol doesn't have the best Special Defense).

Additionally, While Coalassol sits in UU as a defensive rocker/spinner (who doesn't always run Rock Blast/Stone Edge because of fourth-slot-idous). Volc has consistently been a primere OU Pokemon since Gen 5... Even with stealth rocks being a most have for any team. Plus, multiple big names in Smogon (Pokeaim, Emvee, Wolfy [though be plays mostly VGC], Blunder [even though I don't count him as a professional because he's an asshole], Gator and many others) are already expecting Volc, Lando-T and Garchomp to be sent to Ubers this Generation due to how slower the meta game is (base 80 is consider fast now for God's sake lol). Looking at the current OU from pre expansion... The only pokemon that out speeds Volc naturally is Dragapult at base 145. Everything else is either Dugtrio speedtieing or needs other conditions to outspeed (EI Excadrill gets double speed under sand with Sand Rush, but needs to land a rockslide to OHKO [assuming it's running slide], Choice Scarfers can generally outspeed... But many of them run rock or flying type moves, and getting the burn on a U-turn prediction fucks them up [G-Darm already got banned to Ubers, but I can see Volc dying to two Icicle Crashes because everything bar Corviknight dies to two Icicle Crashes lol])
 

Frostlich1228 (Alt)

Well-Known Member
Well keep in mind Dynamax let's you pretty much tank anything and it makes even the weakest moves 130 Base Power. For instance my G-Max Centiscorch has Scald which turns into a 130 base power water move and with Flashfire he crushes other fire types.

Not to mention because of the lower speeds all around Trick Room has been extremely prevalent in this gen meta, with Trick Room Hatterene being really nasty. A lot has happened to shake up the meta so I don't believe that Volc will be too powerful.
 

ShadowHounder

Well-Known Member
Well keep in mind Dynamax let's you pretty much tank anything and it makes even the weakest moves 130 Base Power. For instance my G-Max Centiscorch has Scald which turns into a 130 base power water move and with Flashfire he crushes other fire types.

Not to mention because of the lower speeds all around Trick Room has been extremely prevalent in this gen meta, with Trick Room Hatterene being really nasty. A lot has happened to shake up the meta so I don't believe that Volc will be too powerful.
Dynamax is banned in OU...
 

ShadowHounder

Well-Known Member
That seems stupid. Wasn't Z-Moves and Mega Evolutions just fine? Why ban specifically that?
Megas are different from Dynamaxing... And they almost did bam Z-moves because of how unpredictable they were (with megas, only a set number of Pokemon could mega evolve... But any Pokemon was capable of Dynamaxing or using a Z-crystal). Mega evolved pokemon also had their usage tiering separate from their base forms (Beedrill being a prime example as it was untiered in it's base form, but UU if you were using Mega Beedrill). Basically it's banned for roughly the same reasons why Swagger, OHKO moves and Moody are banned... They are just to hard to have to build around and negatively impact the playing experience.

And keep in mind this is just Volcarona we are talking about. Lando and Garchomp are loving the removal of the random Hidden Power Ice being gone (Volc also enjoys HP Rock not existing either). Lando-I was already Ubers because fun fact: Sheer Force is busted. Lando-T isn't too terribly impacted by the Intimidate nerf since it can just kill you anyway (god forbid it can use the TR for Brave Bird). Rough Skin Garchomp is gonna punish the heavy use of U-turn this Gen (and block Voltswitch) plus he can just Swords Dance up and kill a good two or three mons before dropping. Can't rely on G-Darm to revenge kill since that got banned to Ubers before the tournament last month. The Tapus are back... Which means TapuLucha cores (usually Tapu Koko or Tapu Lele with a Unburden Hawlucha) are gonna be a pain in the ass again. The Lati twins are coming back... And Pursuit possibly might not come with them. In fact one of the reasons why Dragapult is so strong right now is because it can click Specs Shadow Ball unpunished since Ttar can't Pursuit trap it like he did in every other Gen he's been in.
 

Black0ut

Well-Known Member
But. All the Pokemon weren't in Diamond and Pearl at release.

Honestly. As a long time follower of competitive Pokemon, this had to happen eventually, even just for balancing reasons.

There were so many Pokemon and so many different tiers of power and so much variance even in those Pokemon. Competitive Pokemon is like rocket science. They really needed to reduce the number of Pokemon at some point.
Yeah... but one of the points in non-competitive is being able to transfer all the old Pokémon you had. Was one of the reason I played Pokémon (I love you adorable Infernape Eon.) But times change and I recognize that Pokémon is trying to test the waters. If they succeed, they succeed and Pokémon changes a bit. If they fail, they fail and Pokémon remains the same. Either way, as long as the games are full of delightful character that make me smile and remember them long afterwards, (FUCK YOU CYNTHIA, FOR ALL THE PAIN AND THE DOZEN LOSSES) I'll be content.

Although... I'm hoping the new remake Dungeon game will be great and make me sob like Time and Darkness (And Sky) did. If they mess it up, Nintendo will have a very long and angrily written letter.

But yeah, open minds.
 

ShadowHounder

Well-Known Member
Yeah... but one of the points in non-competitive is being able to transfer all the old Pokémon you had. Was one of the reason I played Pokémon (I love you adorable Infernape Eon.) But times change and I recognize that Pokémon is trying to test the waters. If they succeed, they succeed and Pokémon changes a bit. If they fail, they fail and Pokémon remains the same. Either way, as long as the games are full of delightful character that make me smile and remember them long afterwards, (FUCK YOU CYNTHIA, FOR ALL THE PAIN AND THE DOZEN LOSSES) I'll be content.

Although... I'm hoping the new remake Dungeon game will be great and make me sob like Time and Darkness (And Sky) did. If they mess it up, Nintendo will have a very long and angrily written letter.

But yeah, open minds.
Bidoof MVP of Explorers of Sky, change my mind
 

Black0ut

Well-Known Member
Yeah! Woo! They look so good!

Everyone Else: *Crickets*
Well, to be fair, no switch to play smash means no interest from me... that and I WISH THEY WOULD'VE MADE BLACK KNIGHT INTO AN ACTUAL FIGHTER, BUT OKAY... so less to deal with interest and more to do with... well lack of ability to play it, and I haven't played Three Houses yet (Been avoiding spoilers for a long time now)
 

Frostlich1228 (Alt)

Well-Known Member
Well, to be fair, no switch to play smash means no interest from me... that and I WISH THEY WOULD'VE MADE BLACK KNIGHT INTO AN ACTUAL FIGHTER, BUT OKAY... so less to deal with interest and more to do with... well lack of ability to play it, and I haven't played Three Houses yet (Been avoiding spoilers for a long time now)

I don't know how you have around us. But it's absolutely worth it.
 
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