X-COM/XSDF RP THINK TANK (part3)

[DarkGemini24601]

And as we know, the vanilla game usually gives us only enough classes to make half a squad, so I've been concepting what else we might get. Some things have to come with time though. If anyone has any suggestions for additional classes I might be interested in hearing them, no promises on implementation though. Obviously, the four known XCOM classes are described exactly as the Gameplay Demo shows.

XCOM

Trooper - Troopers act as our baseline soldier, making up the backbone of XCOM's forces. While they lack specialization in unique weaponry or equipment, they make up for it with skill in rifles and pistols, being precise shots and knowing how to lob a grenade if necessary.
Grenadier - Serving as our demolitions experts, the Grenadiers provide heavy ordinance delivery whenever and wherever we need it.
Ranger - The Ranger serves as our primary reconnaissance unit, capable of moving independently in concealment while engaging enemies at close range using extensive training in swordsmanship.
Sharpshooter - Just like it sounds, the Sharpshooters engage enemy targets with pinpoint accuracy from extreme range. They're also trained for pistol marksmanship for the occasion close encounter.
Specialist - Operating some of our most advanced equipment, Specialists deploy robotic drones on the battlefield that can be outfitted for combat or field medic duty.

Spoiler: Additional Classes for Later

??? - The mystery class in XCOM2. If it's something stupid like a psi class separate from the others, I'll replace it with something else entirely, but if I like it I'll keep it. Don't bank on your character being this though for how volatile it is.
Harrier - A trooper that specializes in rockets and RPGs. Available when we have the resources to back it. Alternatively, if Grenadiers actually have rockets but not LMGs, this will just be a Gunner class.
Aerotrooper - Placeholder name for soldiers specializing in combat from the air using jetpacks. Obviously, a class we get much later on when we research flight armor.

Notes:
Trooper - The Infantry class, essentially.
Grenadier - Engineer/Heavy, but possibly lacking the LMG-class weapons. I couldn't see if they had them in the trailer. Even if they don't, I'll probably give them LMGs at the expense of rockets, since Guerrilla fighters aren't gonna have a good supply of those to start off.
Ranger - The new assault with some scout elements and a sword. The Desmond class...
Sharpshooter - Scout/Sniper. Close encounters won't be as rare as the Firaxis description lauds with Chryssalids, MEC Troopers, Berserkers, Muton Bayonets, etc etc.
Specialist - Will be able to use medkits on their own. Description seems to fail to mention the Specialists don't rely solely on their drones, which is slightly worrying. But at the very least they should act as secondary infantry shooters with most of their abilities on the Gremlins.

ADVENT

Trooper - Troopers act as the enemy's baseline soldier, making up the backbone of ADVENT's forces. While they lack specialization in unique weaponry or equipment, they make up for it with skill in rifles and pistols, being precise shots and knowing how to lob a grenade if necessary.
Captain - ADVENT soldiers that distinguish themselves for their skill in combat, psionic prowess, or tactical minds become Captains, officers capable of commanding others and equipped with the best guns given to human troops.
MEC Trooper - As if bringing the late Dr. Shen's nightmares to life, a concept for a hulking cyborg trooper has been developed in stride by ADVENT, making for a tough, durable, and firepower-heavy enemy with a few tricks up their sleeve.
Rocketeer - Similar to our concepts for a rocket-wielding class, ADVENT employs specially trained troopers to handle their explosives, particularly rocket propelled grenades and missiles.
Gunner - What distinguishes the Gunner from a regular ADVENT trooper is their weaponry, equipped with machine guns to pack more punch than a normal rifle.
Scorcher - Another heavy weapon that XCOM lacks is seen in ADVENT's forces, the Scorchers being equipped with flamethrowers in addition to a shotgun or rifle.
Assassin - Trained with stealth techniques and long range weaponry, the Assassins of ADVENT take the shadows we cloak ourselves in to heart, and are precise enough to make our own marksmen sweat.

 

[Frostlich1228]

And as we know, the vanilla game usually gives us only enough classes to make half a squad, so I've been concepting what else we might get. Some things have to come with time though. If anyone has any suggestions for additional classes I might be interested in hearing them, no promises on implementation though. Obviously, the four known XCOM classes are described exactly as the Gameplay Demo shows.

XCOM

Trooper - Troopers act as our baseline soldier, making up the backbone of XCOM's forces. While they lack specialization in unique weaponry or equipment, they make up for it with skill in rifles and pistols, being precise shots and knowing how to lob a grenade if necessary.
Grenadier - Serving as our demolitions experts, the Grenadiers provide heavy ordinance delivery whenever and wherever we need it.
Ranger - The Ranger serves as our primary reconnaissance unit, capable of moving independently in concealment while engaging enemies at close range using extensive training in swordsmanship.
Sharpshooter - Just like it sounds, the Sharpshooters engage enemy targets with pinpoint accuracy from extreme range. They're also trained for pistol marksmanship for the occasion close encounter.
Specialist - Operating some of our most advanced equipment, Specialists deploy robotic drones on the battlefield that can be outfitted for combat or field medic duty.

Spoiler: Additional Classes for Later

??? - The mystery class in XCOM2. If it's something stupid like a psi class separate from the others, I'll replace it with something else entirely, but if I like it I'll keep it. Don't bank on your character being this though for how volatile it is.
Harrier - A trooper that specializes in rockets and RPGs. Available when we have the resources to back it. Alternatively, if Grenadiers actually have rockets but not LMGs, this will just be a Gunner class.
Aerotrooper - Placeholder name for soldiers specializing in combat from the air using jetpacks. Obviously, a class we get much later on when we research flight armor.

Notes:
Trooper - The Infantry class, essentially.
Grenadier - Engineer/Heavy, but possibly lacking the LMG-class weapons. I couldn't see if they had them in the trailer. Even if they don't, I'll probably give them LMGs at the expense of rockets, since Guerrilla fighters aren't gonna have a good supply of those to start off.
Ranger - The new assault with some scout elements and a sword. The Desmond class...
Sharpshooter - Scout/Sniper. Close encounters won't be as rare as the Firaxis description lauds with Chryssalids, MEC Troopers, Berserkers, Muton Bayonets, etc etc.
Specialist - Will be able to use medkits on their own. Description seems to fail to mention the Specialists don't rely solely on their drones, which is slightly worrying. But at the very least they should act as secondary infantry shooters with most of their abilities on the Gremlins.

ADVENT

Trooper - Troopers act as the enemy's baseline soldier, making up the backbone of ADVENT's forces. While they lack specialization in unique weaponry or equipment, they make up for it with skill in rifles and pistols, being precise shots and knowing how to lob a grenade if necessary.
Captain - ADVENT soldiers that distinguish themselves for their skill in combat, psionic prowess, or tactical minds become Captains, officers capable of commanding others and equipped with the best guns given to human troops.
MEC Trooper - As if bringing the late Dr. Shen's nightmares to life, a concept for a hulking cyborg trooper has been developed in stride by ADVENT, making for a tough, durable, and firepower-heavy enemy with a few tricks up their sleeve.
Rocketeer - Similar to our concepts for a rocket-wielding class, ADVENT employs specially trained troopers to handle their explosives, particularly rocket propelled grenades and missiles.
Gunner - What distinguishes the Gunner from a regular ADVENT trooper is their weaponry, equipped with machine guns to pack more punch than a normal rifle.
Scorcher - Another heavy weapon that XCOM lacks is seen in ADVENT's forces, the Scorchers being equipped with flamethrowers in addition to a shotgun or rifle.
Assassin - Trained with stealth techniques and long range weaponry, the Assassins of ADVENT take the shadows we cloak ourselves in to heart, and are precise enough to make our own marksmen sweat.

Hmm...

What about a class called the Juggernaut?

Sort of a combination between the Heavy and the Ranger. The Juggernaut would be a slow moving, close combat class that focuses on drawing enemy attention while eviscerating enemies with a shotgun or LMG and a powerful melee weapon, perhaps some sort of Alloy Club or Mace, and surviving thanks to their heavy armor.

Sort of fills the role of a Mec trooper for a group that can't make one, but unlike the Mec, the Juggernaut can take cover, but the trade off is the loss of the gadgets that Mecs usually come equipped with, less durable armor, and slower movement. It's sort of reminiscent of those high Hp late game Assaults back in X-com Enemy Unknown, but of course, without the ability to dodge overwatch and run long distances.

 

[DarkGemini24601]

What about a class called the Juggernaut?

Let's see...

Sort of a combination between the Heavy and the Ranger.

Overlap of sorts, if you want to say a tanky class you'd be better off saying the HP of Assaults or Heavies.

The Juggernaut would be a slow moving

This has to be a flat no if this class is to make any sense. We're fighting a guerrilla war here, and nothing they'd be wearing could be worth not being able to extract when objectives are complete.

close combat class that focuses on drawing enemy attention while eviscerating enemies with a shotgun or LMG and a powerful melee weapon

So basically, doing everything that other classes already do?

perhaps some sort of Alloy Club or Mace,

You know, I'm really depressed right now, but this at least made me laugh. Alright, swords make a lick of sense, not much but they're cool. But a blunt weapon? Are you kidding?

It's sort of reminiscent of those high Hp late game Assaults back in X-com Enemy Unknown, but of course, without the ability to dodge overwatch and run long distances.

Honestly I think a tanking class should mix HP with dodging ability, so that's an idea and thanks for that, but the Juggernaut is not it. You tried to put the Barbarian class from D&D into XCOM and that just doesn't work.

 

[Adrammalech]

You know, I'm really depressed right now, but this at least made me laugh. Alright, swords make a lick of sense, not much but they're cool. But a blunt weapon? Are you kidding?

Grassroots alternative to the arc thrower?

 

[DarkGemini24601]

Grassroots alternative to the arc thrower?

That would be called fists and/or rope, a club's more likely to bash something in.

 

[Frostlich1228]

Let's see...

Overlap of sorts, if you want to say a tanky class you'd be better off saying the HP of Assaults or Heavies.

This has to be a flat no if this class is to make any sense. We're fighting a guerrilla war here, and nothing they'd be wearing could be worth not being able to extract when objectives are complete.

So basically, doing everything that other classes already do?

You know, I'm really depressed right now, but this at least made me laugh. Alright, swords make a lick of sense, not much but they're cool. But a blunt weapon? Are you kidding?

Honestly I think a tanking class should mix HP with dodging ability, so that's an idea and thanks for that, but the Juggernaut is not it. You tried to put the Barbarian class from D&D into XCOM and that just doesn't work.

Well, my idea for a blunt weapon is that they would work well against Advent armor and would be cheap to produce.

 

[MarineAvenger]

Well, my idea for a blunt weapon is that they would work well against Advent armor and would be cheap to produce.

No.... In no way would that be effective... At all. There is a reason you don't see the US carrying maces into war.

(Spoiler Alert: It doesn't apply to modern day armor, especially those made from alien alloys and protective layering underneath, like maybe Kevlar. All you would do is dent the upper layer of armor and get yourself killed. Things become outdated for a reason If they had a massive warhammer where it would emit a shockwave when it landed that is a big stretch, but point is, they would kill you before you got close. At least a sword can work against light or no armor.)

 

[DarkGemini24601]

No.... In no way would that be effective... At all. There is a reason you don't see the US carrying maces into war.

(Spoiler Alert: It doesn't apply to modern day armor, especially those made from alien alloys and protective layering underneath, like maybe Kevlar. All you would do is dent the upper layer of armor and get yourself killed. Things become outdated for a reason If they had a massive warhammer where it would emit a shockwave when it landed that is a big stretch, but point is, they would kill you before you got close. At least a sword can work against light or no armor.)

Marine:

But seriously, do trust him on this. I do have rules on punching damage, and the only way a blunt weapon would actually be effective is if you had someone much stronger than a human swinging the darn thing.

 

[DarkGemini24601]

I imagine Zero Alloys are somewhat shock absorbent, and even if they aren't some nano-fiber interior would be in most armors so that being shot with a rail-accelerated bullet doesn't kill you via concussive force.

Why are swords effective? Reference this trope in Real Life.

Contemporary nanotechnology is actually capable of creating blades like this, but, with a few exceptions (see below, mostly), not sustaining them. Regular blades go dull; an edge that can be measured in atoms becomes an ordinary knife very quickly if those atoms do not have very strong atomic and intermolecular bonds.

Zero Alloys probably fall under this to some extent, though they would have to be regularly maintained.

Knapped obsidian blades are a small and measurable number of molecules in thickness. And while diamond is the harder material, obsidian can be made sharper. The greatest of care should be used in handling obsidian knives and arrow points etc because they can remain truly Absurdly Sharp even centuries after being made and will cut you badly with even the slightest touch. The drawback of course is that being basically an exotic form of glass, they wear out quickly in use.

Maybe even Zero Alloys bonded with obsidian.

 

[MarineAvenger]

Marine:

But seriously, do trust him on this. I do have rules on punching damage, and the only way a blunt weapon would actually be effective is if you had someone much stronger than a human swinging the darn thing.

 

[PrismaCube]

I for once prefer Sword and shield over all other weapons ^^

 

[BMPixy]

Bah, give me a good pike or spear over any of those. Easy to learn, good at keeping your foes at a distance, when used in formation it's wonderful for taking down charges of both infantry and cavalry; hell, there's a reason it was the dominant weapon of nearly every pre-firearms society. And even now, we still turn our guns into spears with the wonderful addition of a bayonet.

 

[PrismaCube]

Bah, give me a good pike or spear over any of those. Easy to learn, good at keeping your foes at a distance, when used in formation it's wonderful for taking down charges of both infantry and cavalry; hell, there's a reason it was the dominant weapon of nearly every pre-firearms society. And even now, we still turn our guns into spears with the wonderful addition of a bayonet.

True that the spear/pike was a king among the rest no doubt about that ^^

 

[DarkGemini24601]

In fairness, I could see an 'atom' pike as well, though if you need to cut into something with deep armor and you don't want to get your weapon stuck or otherwise torn out of your hands... Sectopods say hi... (or just not be able to jab deep enough), the sword will be waiting.

 

[BMPixy]

In fairness, I could see an 'atom' pike as well, though if you need to cut into something with deep armor and you don't want to get your weapon stuck or otherwise torn out of your hands... Sectopods say hi... (or just not be able to jab deep enough), the sword will be waiting.

Yes, but if you're fighting a Sectopod in melee combat, you have much bigger problems than whether or not the spear was the right weapon.

Also, we could also strap directional charges on the end of a spear, and smash them into the enemy's face. Granted, it'd be a single use weapon, but considering that XCOM hasn't exactly heard of carrying more than three rockets per soldier, it's not the worst idea.

 

[DarkGemini24601]

Yes, but if you're fighting a Sectopod in melee combat, you have much bigger problems than whether or not the spear was the right weapon.

Also, we could also strap directional charges on the end of a spear, and smash them into the enemy's face. Granted, it'd be a single use weapon, but considering that XCOM can't carry more than zero rockets per soldier in XCOM2, it's not the worst idea.

FTFY.

 

[Dahlexpert]

So, here's a question for everyone. In XCOM 2 we play a guerrilla tactical force XCOM, and were going agents the aliens who control the world. So my question is are we the bad guys, because the aliens seem to have made earth better. There no wars no every one seems to be happier and the population seems OK with the alien running things so are we the bad guys for trying to stop this peace?

 

[DarkGemini24601]

So, here's a question for everyone. In XCOM 2 we play a guerrilla tactical force XCOM, and were going agents the aliens who control the world. So my question is are we the bad guys, because the aliens seem to have made earth better. There no wars no every one seems to be happier and the population seems OK with the alien running things so are we the bad guys for trying to stop this peace?

Said this earlier on the previous page I think, but here's a detailed analysis so far:

To sum up ADVENT's hidden crimes, it's:

1. Killing/imprisoning dissenters.
2. Human experimentation.
3. Subverting the democratic process for a totalitarian regime bearing the guise of a benevolent and fair order.
4. Attempting to eradicate any human culture that they don't find 'useful' for their purposes of genetic and psionic supremacy/controlling the masses. This means that music is fairly regulated (definitely nothing anti-government, that gets you thrown in a thought correction facility), artwork is the sorta "Socialist Realism" you'd expect from Soviet Russia or Mao's regime in China trying to tell you that everything's fine and dandy, and stuff like rituals and religion would be stripped entirely from the people. (They might push something of a state cult, but my antagonist isn't exactly obsessed with the Path so that's partially a guise)
5. Letting cities and established nations fall apart in favor of their ideal world.
6. I think it has to be said (and keep in mind I do believe this to be one of ADVENT's evils, I do NOT condone this) that they might not see homosexuals as useful and "thought correct" them with suggestion and such. They want breeding stock for ideal humans with psionics and other merits, not 'sterile' people that result in possible loss of desired genetics.
7. More to come...

And their actual benevolence is:

1. Clean, polished cities.
2. Aeternam solution to make people live longer.
3. Relative safety in the Megacities (as long as you're obedient and useful) though I doubt crime is as nonexistent as they'd want you to believe.
4. Eradication of pretty much any diseases they can correct (which is pretty much everything except for a few tough viruses and mental illnesses).
5. Highly advanced technologies from leisure to transportation to work.
6. More to come...

 

[DarkGemini24601]

population seems OK with the alien running things

Also this is because of brainwashing and propoganda.

There no wars no every one seems to be happier

And this is at the cost of all their wrongdoings. A perfect world if you're an obedient sheep, sure, but even then if you have something the aliens want you might become a test subject.

 

[Gisherino]

>alloy maces
>swords
>atom pikes

Jesus christ, throw in a chainsword, oversized pauldrons and a stern frown and I can guarantee our new class is the Space Marine.